GM TBI on our trucks
#92
It's a long standing mod for lots of people in fact. There are articles in magazines and likely many threads hereabouts on how to gut a Dura Spark module and install a particular GM HEI module inside, to let the case work as both heat sink and to keep it stock looking.
The old book by Dr Chris Jacobs (Jacob's Electronics ignition products) documented several swaps between Chrysler, Ford and GM parts and pieces, and why one or another was better at certain duties. He spoke highly of the Ford magnetic trigger and original canister coils like were on our vehicles.
In fact it was mentioned that the Ford coil was probably the best of it's era and was not prone to failure from mounting it sideways. Very likely why we see so many originals still in use.
All coil manufacturers recommend mounting their oil-filled canister coils vertically, but the original Ford coils could get away without overheating while laying on their side.
I don't remember if the reason for changing over to the GM modules from Ford was due to any particular performance, or reliability improvement, or if it was mainly just convenience and price.
Paul
The old book by Dr Chris Jacobs (Jacob's Electronics ignition products) documented several swaps between Chrysler, Ford and GM parts and pieces, and why one or another was better at certain duties. He spoke highly of the Ford magnetic trigger and original canister coils like were on our vehicles.
In fact it was mentioned that the Ford coil was probably the best of it's era and was not prone to failure from mounting it sideways. Very likely why we see so many originals still in use.
All coil manufacturers recommend mounting their oil-filled canister coils vertically, but the original Ford coils could get away without overheating while laying on their side.
I don't remember if the reason for changing over to the GM modules from Ford was due to any particular performance, or reliability improvement, or if it was mainly just convenience and price.
Paul
#93
#94
I took it for a drive and took a short data log. Short because my laptops battery is junk and my HF convertor quit working. With the factory bin (AKDY) it ran pretty good. I wound it out to 3875RPMs and with the Carter on there wouldn't make it that far before it fell on its face.....it hit 3875RPMs and still had some left.......Here is a screen shot of some of my data. How did I know 3875RPMS? Scroll down.
Here is the BLM table from WINALDL which is 1 of the programs you can use to tune or log your BIN
Anything above 128 means the ratio is lean and the ECM is adding fuel. Anything under 128 means rich and it is pulling fuel. The data is kinda screwy because I only took like a 2-3 mile drive. But from messing with my CJ when I did this its not too awful bad. I will end up getting another convertor so I can plug in my laptop so it will last as long as I need it to while I am logging.
This is how I knew it hit 3875RPMs. You also get a log showing what else is going on with the truck. From how hot it gets to the voltage the alt is putting out. You use this info to tweak your tune.
When the truck was running with the Carter at about 2000RPMs to 3200-3400RPMs it had a really bad clatter....that is gone now. Not sure why. Maybe the Carter was way lean? It wasn't detonation...sounded like valve float. Maybe it had to due with the headers? Not sure. Tonight when I climbed in it no odd noises like before, and it pulled with some oooomph, not like before with a lazy climb through the RPM range. So far tickled at the difference the TBI has made. It should only get better...Oh yeah, the best part....it didn't die at every stop sign till it was warmed up. It did this even on 90 degree days all summer....no more. Do have to adjust my clutch now though. It doesn't release till way late....just before pedal is at resting height. Nothing to do with the TBI....remember I yanked the motor and tranny when I did this project...
As someone asked earlier, this is why you really want to tune your own chip....even though I could probably leave it and it will run just fine I can make it better. It is not as difficult as it sounds. I was skeptical at doing it because I am not a computer guy, but there are enough websites and forums out there where someone will be able to answer your questions in a way that shows you how what you are doing works. I will keep updating as I make the tune better and try and explain it as I go.
Here is the BLM table from WINALDL which is 1 of the programs you can use to tune or log your BIN
Anything above 128 means the ratio is lean and the ECM is adding fuel. Anything under 128 means rich and it is pulling fuel. The data is kinda screwy because I only took like a 2-3 mile drive. But from messing with my CJ when I did this its not too awful bad. I will end up getting another convertor so I can plug in my laptop so it will last as long as I need it to while I am logging.
This is how I knew it hit 3875RPMs. You also get a log showing what else is going on with the truck. From how hot it gets to the voltage the alt is putting out. You use this info to tweak your tune.
When the truck was running with the Carter at about 2000RPMs to 3200-3400RPMs it had a really bad clatter....that is gone now. Not sure why. Maybe the Carter was way lean? It wasn't detonation...sounded like valve float. Maybe it had to due with the headers? Not sure. Tonight when I climbed in it no odd noises like before, and it pulled with some oooomph, not like before with a lazy climb through the RPM range. So far tickled at the difference the TBI has made. It should only get better...Oh yeah, the best part....it didn't die at every stop sign till it was warmed up. It did this even on 90 degree days all summer....no more. Do have to adjust my clutch now though. It doesn't release till way late....just before pedal is at resting height. Nothing to do with the TBI....remember I yanked the motor and tranny when I did this project...
As someone asked earlier, this is why you really want to tune your own chip....even though I could probably leave it and it will run just fine I can make it better. It is not as difficult as it sounds. I was skeptical at doing it because I am not a computer guy, but there are enough websites and forums out there where someone will be able to answer your questions in a way that shows you how what you are doing works. I will keep updating as I make the tune better and try and explain it as I go.
#96
Well I didn't forget about you guys ....just have not had time to update my progress. Progress I have been making..... I believe I almost have it tuned good enough to leave it be for a bit. So let me tell about a new issue I have with my truck now. It had not rained here in about 6 weeks while I was driving around knocking down a tune. I had been messing with the timing curve and bumped the timing up and took it for a drive. Now mind you this is a 78 F150 with the 300 followed by a NP435 and NP205, leading to a 9" with 3:50 gears. 35" tires x 12.5". At 40MPH in 3rd, pulling around 2200RPMs if I stomp on the gas the back tires break loose. That was interesting the first time that happened. Of course the kid in me had to do it a few more times to make sure it was not a fluke. The only issue I had was when it got cold here it didn't want to start on the first try. I found the table that told the motor what it considered cold start temp and also the table that set the air fuel ratio for cold start and leaned it out a bit and wallah....it now starts and idles great at 20 degrees. Well at least it did this morning.
Here is a fuel table. The top is when I was starting out. The number you want is 128. Anything above that is lean and adding fuel, anything below is rich and pulling it. Started out way lean at the top and now after some tweaking it is much better.
This is the table I tweaked to get my truck to start in the cold. Left was the factory bin I was using and to the right was my change. Very very rich on the factory bin.
This is my timing curve.....it really woke the old truck up. The factory bin was pretty anemic as far as advance went. I may even bump it up a little further....I have no detonation yet.
Here is a fuel table. The top is when I was starting out. The number you want is 128. Anything above that is lean and adding fuel, anything below is rich and pulling it. Started out way lean at the top and now after some tweaking it is much better.
This is the table I tweaked to get my truck to start in the cold. Left was the factory bin I was using and to the right was my change. Very very rich on the factory bin.
This is my timing curve.....it really woke the old truck up. The factory bin was pretty anemic as far as advance went. I may even bump it up a little further....I have no detonation yet.
#99
What a surprise to see this thread back up. For anyone curious the truck still runs like a top. I drive it everyday. 10 miles to work 1 way down I 75. 70mph the whole way. No matter the temperature it starts right up and I can drive off instantly. Been doing some body work on it in another thread. Just acquired a 75 2WD for the cab and bed ....going to do the bodywork on them and swap the cab and bed out when finished so I can still drive it while this is going on. The 75 has a pre 74 351 Windsor and a t-18 in it.It was a transplant. The truck had been sitting in a garage since 1993....last time the plates were renewed. If I cannot sell the rolling chassis I may tinker with the thought of putting the 351 in my truck instead of the 300.
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