pm me with your e-mail address, it is a pdf file, color coded, free standing system. Save it to a flash drive and Take it to office max or somewhere like that and for a buck they can print it out on a 11 x 17 in full color. One note it showes a Ford e-coil and it is better to use the GM version as the Ford one is known to get hot with full 12 volts all the time.

 

Thanks to all that responded and sent information. Here are the basics. Some of this is in Swedish.



Doug

 

I have a Holley Commander 950 TBI setup on a 460, works very well. The Holley system will be easier to tune than the GM TBI system. You will need to make some adjustments to the PCM program to work with your 351. The GM TBI will require extra equipment if you want to tune. Also the Holley uses some of the same parts as the GM so you could source repair parts locally if needed.

 

Here is a link to someone who did a mustang EFI swap to a 79 F100.

Doug

Ford EFI Swap

 

if you can find a swap using the old speed-density efi from an 86 to about a 94 Ford F-150, in my mind, that would be ideal. off the shelf parts and a very dependable, very sound system. The distributor should swap in as well.

The speed-density can be upgraded to a MAF system later on if you want.

 

Wow, most of the stuff I have read here is trying to sway your decision against the TBI used on GM trucks. I will be the first one to tell you DO IT! I am doing this swap on my Jeep the winter(AMC 360). I am also collecting parts to do this on my '77 F250 460.
Check out binderplanet.com. These are very reliable systems, and very inexpensive to set-up. Good Luck!
-Lance

 

wow yea i like the idea! but, i would just have dropped a disel in it if you were doing a 3/4 ton project, were all entitled to our opinions right? and isnt "chevy" and "GM" the hush hush noughty word around here?

 

I am not afraid to do something different, I do it all the time. The same friend that wants me to stay carbed would have easily been swayed to put a 5.9 in it. He has one as do I. I also have a 7.3TD with aftercooler. The dodge and Tuscany will both be going away once this is completed and proven. I have 6 Trucks now and will be going down to 2. I have only done one Diesel transplant and that is partially because they said it wouldn't work. I put an 02 Dodge 5.9 in my Freightliner and ran it on the Freightliner ECM. The big difference is the Freightliner timing ring is on the crank between number 5 and 6. The dodge uses a CPS at the injection pump.

Doug

 

Is all of that *sh--tuff* really going to be worth the hassle and expense over a good, properly set up and tuned Motorcraft 2100/4100 carburetor? Remember, a properly functioning carburetor with a working choke that is set up correctly can run just as good and be just as reliable as any EFI system.

How do the pros outweigh the cons? How much does that system cost? How much of a headache is that going to be? Where are you going to get replacement parts when you are traveling "all around the country" and something fails?

Is all that going to be worth it in the end over making one (optional) stop in Colorado for an elevation change carburetor tune-up with a simple screwdriver?

 

The system cost nothing, I had it from an earlier project(donated by a friend). The only thing I need to buy is the adapter to fit the 4V($50). I don't have a 2100 or 4100 just an older Carter AFB.

I used a NV4500 as the trans and BW4401 so I already have the VSS installed and I used the 35 Gal GM tank with the internal 15LB fuel pump, so there isn't that much more to do. I was going to have to buy a pressure regulator to get the 15lb down to 5.5 that I won't need with the TBI (it is internal to the TBI).

I prefer to use the carb setup when I am doing a numbers matching vehicle, but this isn't even close. I will have to keep my build log book just to know what I need at the parts store.

Doug

 

It would be very worth it. Cost depends on your ability. I have built a free standing system Complete for about 150 bucks. "Remember, a properly functioning carburetor with a working choke that is set up correctly can run just as good and be just as reliable as any EFI system." Like to see your carb start up as good as quick as my TBI when it is 20 below.
" Where are you going to get replacement parts when you are traveling "all around the country" and something fails?" I will bet any Autozone, Checkers, Napa, is going to have more parts on the shelf than they will for our trucks. Face it they are newer, and there are millions of them still running around.
The GM ecm has two chips, if one or more of the sensors fail it will default to the limp mode chip and run in open loop and at best will get you home. My Holley cant do that for me. l
"Is all that going to be worth it in the end over making one (optional) stop in Colorado for an elevation change carburetor tune-up with a simple screwdriver?" Well I live on Colorado and I go from 5280 to over 10,600 feet to wheel and not only do I have not to stop but it changes the fuel/air and timing as I drive, no need to pull over and play with the carb. Wheeling night and day difference, steep grades, hell a TBI will run fine upside down.
Don't get me wrong I still run a Holley on my 460 in my truck and love it, but my TBI system is on my Jeep. Cons? yea there are a lot of them. Biggest mistake is like the pic post in Swedish is they only run part of the system. No knock, no egr control, no esc, no timing control, no VSS. In less you burn a new chip you are going to have some problems. All of these will trip and store a code and may or may not set off the ses light. You can't run "part" of the system and expect no problems with out burning a chip to turn off some of what the ecm can do.
For the guys not willing to change I totally understand that I am old school too, but if fuel injection systems are not worth the time and effort ask yourself why after around the late 80s you cant buy a new car or truck with a carb?

 

You really need to work on your paragraph and punctuation skills, 1977f250. I had a hard time reading and following your post.

First off, I am in my 30s and have 3 vehicles, and only one of them has a carburetor. I am not some old geezer who scoffs at anything modern and I am not saying a carburetor is better; I am simply saying that changing from a perfectly capable carburetor to a GM TBI is not really that much of a step up for all the work and expense involved, and the end result. If the original poster wanted to go from a carburetor to a full EFI out of a later model Ford truck, that would make a WHOLE LOT more sense to me than the Holley Projection kit or the GM TBI.

Well, that is a rather extreme example, don't you think? How often does it get to 20 below? I personally have never been in temperatures that low, but I do know that it got down to 5 degrees here last winter (that is COLD for South Carolina!) and my truck started right up with just ONE PUMP of the gas, and continued running without stalling at all. As long as the choke is working correctly and you are using a thermostatic air cleaner, there is no reason why a carbureted vehicle shouldn't stay running in very cold temperatures. Hell, people managed to drive vehicles and tractors for over 50 years in weather that cold before TBI and EFI was even thought of. But yes, it is true that electronically-controlled engines do offer some driving improvement in extremely cold weather, but its not like a carburetor is incapable of handling it.

Yes, Autozone, Checkers, and NAPA are going to have more parts on the shelf than they will for carbed vehicles, and that is because carbed vehicles don't need half of the parts that EFI uses, right?

My Autolite 4100 has *no* chips to fail to stop me from getting home. I can't say the same thing for my EFI systems in my other two vehicles.

For optimum performance, there is simply no way around the fact that you will have to manually adjust your carburetor in altitude changes like that, and that is where EFI has a clear advantage. If you are wheeling, the Autolite and/or Motorcraft carburetor can handle the steep grades just fine, and they are very popular among the older Jeep crowd for that very reason. However, unlike EFI, they will not run upside down, but again, that is an extreme example. How often do you need to be running upside down?

...which is why I question, "is it worth it" to use this particular system? It seems to me it would be simpler to just get your carburetor running correctly, or do it right the first time and go to a full MAF EFI system. At least this way you can get parts off the shelf at any auto parts store in any town, and an outside mechanic will at least have an idea on what is going on under your hood.

Right. Just like I cringe every time someone tells me how inferior a carburetor is, when they are running an oversize, double pumper carburetor with a shiny billet racing distributor on a worn-out thirty year old engine with ratty wiring, no choke, and an open element chrome air cleaner. In order to run smoothly and correctly in ALL weather conditions, an older carbed engine needs the correct size carburetor, with a working hot-air choke, and the thermostatic air cleaner correctly installed and working.

The reason why you can't buy a vehicle with a carb anymore is mostly because of emissions. A *typical* EFI is going to run a bit cleaner than a *typical* carburetor. EFI is computer-controlled so it adjusts itself to changing conditions automatically, a definite plus over carburetors, which you have to manually adjust yourself. Most people do not know enough about carburetors to adjust them correctly to run efficiently and cleaner, or were just too lazy to do so. And that is why I would not recommend tossing out a perfectly good EFI system in favor of a carburetor, either.

Fuel injected systems are a wonderful invention. But is it really worth the time and money to switch from a perfectly capable carburetor to EFI? I guess it really depends on what you are doing with your vehicle, how much time and money you have, and what you hope to accomplish by doing so. For normal day-to-day driving though, unless you are going up and down a mountain every day or are planning to run your engine upside down, the GM TBI is *not* going to offer any advantages over a properly setup and tuned carburetor.

Unless, of course, you find that it is too complicated to remember to push your foot down on the gas pedal one time before starting your vehicle for the day.

 

Point taken I understand what you are saying, and I AM a old geezer. lol. I still love my carb but I cant see someone knocking a system that will and does work right because they know someone who did it and had problems with it, and more that likly had no clue how it works and what draw backs are if some parts are not used. Sure it will work and run, but right? O, and it does get 20 below here sometimes. PS english was my worst subject, You got me on that one.

 

I am narrowing my options, but haven't decided on anything definitively yet. In an ideal world, I would be able to use the ECM from the Ford. I would have stayed with the 4r100 and made a frame modification for the transfer case.

If I went that way, I might have just used the 97 frame and done that body swap.

Where I am now, it looks like a Mega squirt programmable ECM. Most of the GM harness and sensors. Duraspark modified to look like a GM disty if mega squirt can't handle the timing on the duraspark.

I do plan on a more complete system than the above picture. I definitely want everything to work. I will also put a SES light in the cab somewhere. I don't want to hack up the factory dash.

So far I have managed to do lots of modifications to the truck without hacking it up. Like I have said in other posts, I want this to look like it left the factory the way it is configured. Thats one thing I like about the GM TBI. With the Air cleaner on, you won't know it is not a carb.

Doug

 

Glad to see that we can agree on a few things, you old geezer!
Just out of curiosity, how does a properly functioning carburetor react in temps that cold (20 below) up in Colorado?

When I finally got my own carburetor tuned right and running as it should as a complete system with a functioning choke and stock air cleaner, I was actually shocked to find that it started so quickly and ran as smooth as it did when it got so cold here (5 degrees in South Carolina) last year. Driveability wasn't quite as smooth the first few minutes as my 1998 Jeep or my wife's 2001 Mustang, but I was really pleasantly surprised at how well my carburetor could handle what it was being asked to do.