Im getting a 61 unibody that has a running 292 but no tranny and i would like to put a 5sp or a 4sp od in it. Im fairly new to the y-blocks so any links except the one to the $700 adapter would be helpfull. I guess what I need to know is what bellhousing to use and what if any mods to do to the tranny to get it to work right.
Thanks,
Luke

 

To mount a toploader style 4 speed OD, or the SROD or Top shifted versions (none of which are very strong, and the aluminum cased SROD and top shift even weaker) you will need a bell with the later model "wide" transmission pattern. Regular toploaders have both patterns, but the OD does not. Also, the iron cased unit is side shifted with the shifter back pretty far.

Ditto the T-5 5 speed. The T5 has many flavors, and with a steel bearing retainer and the right torque rating, would work unless you are going to haul gravel and tow 5 or 6 head in a livestock trailer. To fit the T5 in a PU, a Chev S10 tailshaft housing is used. T5s have great interchangability, so this is easy to do.

This outfit sells bell housings for Y block to either Ford Toploader, or Y to T5. See page two of the PDF you get when you click on "Bellhousing Application Chart".

Quick Time Performance Products

This outfit sells T5s--they did have reman'd boxes at one point, but only new ones now--$1395 and up.... They also sell the quicktime bell.

Modern Driveline T5 transmission parts & conversion packages

They sell all kinds of other stuff and were helpfull when I emailed them about a conversion.

The bell is on the second page of the bellhousing listings.
And it's only $525....

I looked on Jegs, J. W. Performance & Lakewood--no Y block shown. Mcleod you have to request a catalog, no on-line listings.

Another alternative for a manual trans would be the OEM or "near" OEM T85 3 speed with the electric OD on the tail. Numberdummy can tell you the exact part number etc, but this trans would bolt to a stock Y clutch bell.

Yet another way to go is a tall rear axle with a T18 or T19 or NP435 four speed with the very low first gear for hills and loads. Maybe you need a T98 for yours due to the bell pattern.

 

The old Ford top loader 4 speed was strong enough to stand up to the torque of full-house FE motors. Most of them come drilled for both the "T&C" pattern as well as the "tall and narrow" pattern found on Ford Y Block bell housings used for 3 speed transmissions. If both sets of holes are not in all four corners, you can drill them.

Likewise the Ford version of the Borg Warner T10 4 speed, strong enough for small block motors in "the day." The one I have for a '67 Mustang also is drilled for both the "T&C" pattern and the "tall and narrow" pattern.

The Ford SROD 3 speed + overdrive transmission is nothing more than the old 4 speed toploader, where the old 3rd speed became an overdrive. These transmissions have an aluminum case and they also are drilled for both the T&C and tall and narrow pattern -- as is the one that is in my garage right now. The troubles with the SROD are: 1. There is a huge jump between the 3rd gear and the 2nd gear. 3rd is 1:1 and 2nd is 2:1. 2nd should be around 1.6:1 to really work well. Also, the SROD tended to have brittle gears. They will wear a long time, but they would stand more abuse if they had been made somewhat softer.

The problem with all of the above transmissions is that they all had a 6 1/2" input shaft length and the Y Block truck bell housing is used with a transmission having a 7 1/8" input shaft length.

You can get around this problem by using a T5 5 speed out of certain Mustangs. They have a 7 1/8" input shaft length. The trouble with these is that, while the bottom 2 holes on the transmission line up with the old truck 3 speed bell housing, the top 2 do not.

However, you can have your 3 speed truck bell housing modified by John Mummert for $250 as pictured here:



and described on this page (bottom half):

F

This is John's page, if you are interested, I suggest you call him:

FORD Y

Now, you may as why you could not use the car Y Block 3 speed bell housing with a 6 1/2" input shaft transmission -- you can. However, the truck bell housings have the rear motor mounts cast on them and use a single motor mount under the front of the engine, where as the car bell housing has no motor mounts and the engine has two on each side (they mount to a cross member that trucks don't have) and one on the transmission tail shaft (which also mounts to a cross member trucks don't have).

You could make up a cross member for a transmission tail shaft mount and use a commonly available (at least, they used to be) cross member used for swapping FEs into rods. This cross member is adjustable for frame rail width.

But if you go this route, you still have a problem: the truck bell housing is set up to pull a forged throw out fork toward the rear of the vehicle from the clutch pedal cross arm behind the bell housing, where the car uses a push arrangement that pushes a pressed throw out fork from in front of the bell housing.

You might get around this by using a hydraulic clutch setup.

I believe another thing Mummert does to modify the truck bell housing for the T5 transmission is to bore out the input bearing retainer register to 4.85", like most modern ('64 and up) transmissions use. The stock register in the Y Block 3 speed bell housing is 4.675". Some guys do have the transmission front bearing retainer turned down to the 4.675" dimension, but if you do this, note that the 4 bolts that attach the retainer to the front of the transmission are very close to the edge. You may have to use Allen-head bolts for clearance if you go this route.

You will note that on the truck, the clutch pedal cross arm mounts to the driver's side frame rail and on the transmission, using a bracket that bolts to bosses cast into the side cover of the stock transmission. Mummert makes a bracket that allows the inner end of the clutch pedal cross arm to mount to the T5 transmission, as shown on the page I provided the link to.

If you go with any of the car transmissions, pay close attention to where the shifter will come thru into the cab. In the case of car boxes with outside shifters, the lever will come thru the bench seat of the truck. Not so big of a deal if you have installed buckets and don't mind chopping holes in the cab floor.

For the Ford Top Loader 4 speed style box (which would include the SROD), Jeep used the same transmissions in their CJ series for a year or two, and they had a floor shifter that mounts to the top of the gear box (rather than to the tail shaft) which would be just about right. However, these trans tops are not to common. David Kee Toploader Transmissions, Inc. was repoing them at some outrageous cost once. This top makes the top loader shift like a big truck 4 speed and the lever should come thru at or near the stock truck 4 speed hole in the floor.

If you decide to go the T5 route, some of these came in S10 brand x pickups and they might have a shifter lever pretty close to the truck 4 speed hole, also -- you would have to check on that.

Hopefully, this will give you some ideas to fire up your project planning.

 

cool thanks for the info. It sounds like the easiest way would be to get the 3sp bellhousing modified and get a 4sp top loader. Any specific year range? But how can I get the 7 1/8'' input shaft? Im 18 full time student so Im on a budget otherwise I would of gone with a new 5sp . The guy im getting the truck from took out the 3sp so Ill email him to see if he still has the bell so I can get it modified. What about the early 90's f150s 5sp. I have freinds with them in there rangers and f150s.
Thanks,
Luke

 

Luke, you would not need a new 5 speed. All you need to do is find one from an early 90s Mustang. Mummert can tell you what to look for, but it isn't a matter of getting a new one -- it is a matter of scrounging the "usual places" to find a used one in good shape at the right price.

Then, I'd suggest that you study up on T5s so that you can find a version having the right shifting arrangement - get that and set it up on your Mustang box and you will be on the road.

You will be well off if you can get at least the front half of the Mustang driveshaft -- the drive shaft shop will mate the yoke with your existing unit.

You will also need to deal with the speedometer setup.

All-in-all, this should be the cheapest way to go, will give you a 5 speed having an overdrive gear, and if you do it right, should look pretty clean in the cab. However, even tho you are doing it with scrounged parts, it still will not be cheap! I have no idea what it will cost you to ship the bell housing to California and get it back again, for instance. And, getting a driveshaft made up will be a tidy expense.

But this is probably still the cheapest way to go and is also one of the better ones, I think. Meantime, you can use the 3 sp bell housing with a 3 sp trans you scrounge from somewhere to still drive the truck while you are searching for your parts, right? A T89 or 3 sp Ford Toploader will work great.

 

cool thanks. Ill probably have about 600-800 after Im done parting out a 70f100 im getting for parts.

 

OK, just remember that you will pretty much be limited to transmissions with the 7 1/8" input shaft, whatever way you go.

With the 6 1/2" input, there is only about 1/4" to 3/8" of the input shaft pilot journal that is in the pocket bearing, and the clutch disk center will only be catching the very ends of the input shaft splines -- they don't go all the way thru the clutch disk hub by any means.

This is an important factor to consider when the way home is a long way to walk.

This means that other than those 90s era Mustangs (i.e., those using the 7 1/8" T5 and I think one year that used a 7 1/8" SROD, which probably wouldn't cost any different and the SROD would be much less desirable from the ratio aspect), you are looking for three speeds from Ford Trucks of 1964 or before -- 1964 was the last year that small Ford trucks used motor mounts on the bell housing. In 1965, they went to using a car motor mount setup on cars and therefore the same kinds of transmission input shafts as cars.

Other than digging up a stocker from earlier trucks, the T89 would have been the one that came stock in your year of truck. It is a good box and similar to the Borg Warner T10 4 sp in design and power capability. Starting in '63, IIRC, Ford started using their 3 sp toploader, which is a bit stronger and has a synchronized 1st gear -- a nice touch. So that choice would have been available in 1963 or 1964.

The older truck 3 sp transmissions were weaker, but some did have overdrives available. These are in some demand among F100 owners and will cost some more, but they work because they were made to. There are some additional things you will need beside the overdrive trans to make this like factory, but you will not need the other pieces simply to make it work. I suggest that, if you consider the old 3 sp overdrive, that you research them well as there were actually two units made (every car maker used them) and you also want to be sure that whatever you buy works or can be fixed. An old manual will be a good starting point for you on this point.

If you do go a 3 sp route, you still face a shifter problem -- it will be coming thru your bench seat if you use an external shifter meant for cars on the T89, Toploader, or older 3 sp overdrive.

When I converted my truck to a 3 sp from the old truck 4 sp, I used a T89 and adapted a column shift from a 1954 Ford car. The only difference from stock was that the car shift lever has a slight bend to it, where the truck lever does not. I used modern Hurst style levers, which are shorter than stock, so the shift lever doesn't swing in such a large arc. I got several shifting rods from the junk yard and with a torch, a bucket of water, and a lot of trial and error, got the business to work quite well.

All of these truck 3 sp transmissions use a sliding yoke on the driveshaft, but the old 3 sp overdrive has a slip yoke in the tailshaft like a car. Whenever you mix and match, consider that you will need a trip down to the driveshaft shop.

 

hey there. heres some info for ya. I dont know what you plan to do with your truck but I have checked this angle out. If you want to put a 5 spd behind your y-block look into the tremec TKO 500 or TKO 600. I have called several driveline sources and they all say that for a truck, the tko is the better choice. it's a stronger tranny than the t-5. now, the tko has several different shifter locations so you can put that shifter right where you want it. now, if i remember correctly the input shaft for the tko is the same length as the 94-95 t-5's in the mustangs so you can call up john mummert and get one of those t-5 adapter plates. ther is a company called quicktime performance that make a bellhousing for the y-blocks but the bellhousing doesnt have the mounting ears that a truck needs as of the last time i checked. that bellhousing lets you the only downside to the tko is that they are a bit spendier than the t-5. I plan to put a tko in my 64 f100 with the 292 with john mummerts adapter plate. hope this helps ya a bit.

 

Ive possible found a T-85n im waiting for the guy to get the numbers. Any idea on what its worth?

 

if ya wasnt so far away i have several t-18 and t-89 4speeds. but florida is a long way from wyoming. Im gunna try to put a dodge np4500 in my 59 behind a y block

 

Great resource here.