Yep, just like I stated in my original post.

Yep we have and you still can't seem to grasp what I'm stating! 2/1 shivy/Ford! So why is shivy being allowed to dominate for this long, after all gmna$car "was" singing parity, now suddenly nothing yet shivy continues to beallowed to dominate? Currently the stats show shivy with 25 wins, Ford with 4 and dodge with a few. Don't know bout you but that certainly looks like shivy domination to me and not much different than last seasons #'s. How long was Ford allowed to dominate when they introed the Taurus? A few months "maybe" before gmna$car listened to the endless shivy whining and clipped their wings.

Furthermore, "why doesn't" the manufacturer's title factor in the "obvious" slanted #'s of each make in the field? It's really nothing but another shivy gimme! Exactly how is shivy ever going to lose the manufacturer title with this slanted method of calculation that does not take into account the bias of #'s of each make on the track? Not very likey to happen!

Oh, you mean just like havewreck (childress) did last season in busch holding a 844 point lead at the endof the season.

Wow, Ford's won how many races this year compared to shivy?

Yep, like the ole sayin goes, there's a sucker born every minute, but actually I think it's more often than that.

 

Why your not a writer for NASCAR.com I'll never know.

You seem to have it all figured out. So on that note, this horse has been beat and left to pass on alooonnnggg time ago.

Once again, good luck on this conspiracy theory you are trying to have everyone else figure out for you.

 

Really late getting in on this one, but I have a feeling Ford is just getting tired of dumping money into Nascar.

I read an article about that whole thing recently, they said automakers have to pay upwards of $20 million per year just to have their logo on a race car. That doesn't even include money for team support, etc.

There's really no point in it anymore except being able to say a Ford won a race. But Chevy (and toyota I suspect) are dumping so much money into it, forget it.

 

Out of all the input that is what was kind of in my thought. Because nobody is going to convince me that Chevy is that much better. Also nobody is going to convince me that Toyota trucks are that much better than the rest. With this COT the manufactures as I understand it have to pay NASCAR to put their name on cars that are fully owned by NASCAR. Is FIRST on RACE DAY still FIRST OF MONDAY. I really think not. I also believe that the type of car isn't the focal point it's the DRIVER. Are many going to leave Tony Stewart because he will be driving a Toyota next year? NO NO. I like Tony Stewart he is a great driver and stands up to NASCAR even if it costs him money. I don't care what he drives. The American manufactures are not rolling in money as they once did. I except to see the COTs all running the same engines one day. WELCOME TO IROC. I believe NASCAR is preparing for the day the auto manufactures pull out or reduce the amount of money they pay greatly. Thanks for all the interest & input. I'm slowly loosing interest in NASCAR. I'm TOO old school I guess. To me NASCAR isn't real racing anymore. The old NASCAR ended with Dale Sr. It was heading that way before but it really changed after his death. I'm no Dale Sr fan. He was a real racer the same kind we have on our dirt track. Anyway Thanks again

 

First off, if it appears that I am offending you or anyone, I'm sorry, but I'm really not meaning too!

IMO You're right, shivy is no way better than Ford certainly not on the streets or at the track, unless they're favored in some way by the ruling party/series. I believe I rate in this category seein as I've owned many a gm product in my earlier lifetime and regret owning every damn one of em (cept a 65 GTO I wish I had kept).

I do stand by my original theory/claim based on the obvious and LONG LIST of past rulings/gray areas, stats, etc. that has favored shivy in some way in na$car's cup series ever since the beginning of the so-called modern era (1972).

If shivy wasn't given something (i.e. mandatory small block, "mid-season" nose extensions, 1/4" off/on the rear spoiler, massaged/reworked quarter panels, unprecedented two tries at testing, new motor even though one wasn't needed, etc, etc), something was taken away or held from the other competitors to allow shivy to catch up or dominate.

Never was Ford allowed to dominate for as long as shivy's been allowed to. A month or two at best! When shivy whines, gmna$car's ears perk up and something is done about it, but if Ford whines they're handed a towel and told to live with it. Never has gmna$car came to Ford's rescue like they have for gm time and again. It's all in the historical archives for review.

However, now that shivy is the cream of the crop and has been virtually untouchable for the past two seasons, nothing is/has being/been done to even the field. Even while gmna$car was singing about parity last season, but so far not a whisper about it this season, nothing is being done about the disparity. If that alone doesn't show favoritism I don't know what it would take convince those who seemingly refuse to see it or just ignore the obvious!?! Those who refuse to see the obvious I place in the fans of "reality tv(LOL)" class, simply put those without a clue or just in it for the entertainment value.

As for toni, you'd be surprized by looking at polls on racing forums how many are sayin seeya as a fan seein due to his owner gibb's going to toy and/or that he will now be driving a toy. There are still manufacturer fans, but most are old school like myself and many of those have lost interest in this particular series.

Call me whatever you like, conspiracy theorist, nut case, etc., it matters not, I just tell it like I see it and how it's fed. Apparantly by my attacking na$car's credibility on open forums, some here or there take it personal as though I were attacking them or a family member personally and feel the need to try and belittle me the messenger. So be it, no sweat here!

Fairness in any sport should be of the utmost importance to the ruling entity and the fans, but apparantly not if one's a gm fan or a gm driver fan in this farce of a series labeled stockcar racing. Seems to me money is much more important, to which gm owns the marketing rights at any track short of Homestead, and fairness takes a second at best.

 

I rooted for a brand back in the day when the race cars were based on production vehicles. However, I don't any more as there is no difference other than the engine. Rusty Wallace won several races with the same car. He won when it was a Pontiac and he continued when it was a Ford. Then, you had to switch the engine and the sheet metal to change brands of cars but with the COT, you only have to change the engine and decals.

 

Who is offended? Has someone personally attacked you that you are coming up with this?

If they are so "obvious" start posting facts, not the generalized statements you make in your paragraph below.

While you researching all your facts ( that you never seem to present ) you should also dig up what "Shivy" had "held" or "taken away" also. You make it sound like Ford was violated by NASCAR. ( I can't even imagine your posts on this if you were a Dodge fan )

You really need to find another sport to thoerize about. Can you direct me to those "historical archives" you speak of?

You do realize in the past 4 years, a Ford driver has won 2 of those 4 years right? And you should realize that out of all the the "Shivys" in the field, there are only about 5 or 6 cars out of say 20 that are winning. It's the TEAMS that are dominate, not the manufacturer. As a fan, I know I'm asking the wrong person this, are you more likely to remember what driver and make combined won the Cup that year or are do you remember what manufacturer won more races?

Really? I couldn't tell. But do admit to still following it even though you state you have lost interest and continue to bash it....

Don't be so hard on yourself. Nobody has openly stated you were a nut case.
I don't know who or what is "feeding" you, but I think we have had enough...

Attacking someones or something's credibility while having little or no credibility in backing up anything you state doesn't say much now does it.
Once again, who is so offended that are personally attacking you? Is it second nature for you to blow things out of proportion? ( this is a genuine question, so don't take it as an attack )

Does GM really? Please post facts to back this up.....oh wait a minute.

 

You make some good points as everyone has. If my memory serves me correct, didn't in 1986-1988 didn't the T-Bird have top honors. If again my memory is correct NASCAR let Chevy lower their tops and raised the T-Birds because the Bird was kicking everyones A$$. Bill from Dawsonville set the world record speed at Charlotte in 1987 at 212 MPH still a record today. If I'm wrong please correct me. Again I don't think Ford is feeding Roush or Yates the money GM is their teams. One reason I say this is the deal with Fenway & Roush. Then Yates building most of the Fords engines. This is just my opinions.

 

You apparantly haven't followed this joke called stock car racing close enough to know either or about it, but that doesn't seem to stop you from "tryin" to pick my posts to pieces. So you want me to spell it out for ya huh!?!

First off, gmna$car has no credibility left! They've shot themselves in the toe so many times they haven't any left. Especially in the past two years/seasons. Some folks just choose to ignore it, you obviously bein one of em. It's all right there in front of your face, open your eyes!

At the end of 1971 Ford had 278 wins, shivy 18. 1972 until now shivy has 613 wins to Ford's 305. My what a miraculous turn around eh!

Ford and gm agreed behind the scenes to boycott na$car shortly after, Ford followed through with their pledge and pulled factory support, gm renigged on their part of the deal, dodge said seeya. When the bigblocks were outlawed gm miraculously came to life

Do you remember the Elliot's getting slammed by gmna$car at every turn in the 80's and 90's when Bill was putting the hammer down on those highly financed gm teams? Probably not!

Here's just a taste of the endless gimme's;

First off the end of "stock car" in this stock car series started when the front wheel drive lumina was allowed to compete. The last true stock car was the ThunderBird.

1992 Ford won the titles, 1993 spoiler adjustments to bring shivy back to the circle.

1994 Ford takes down shivy again 20/11, gmna$car steps in again and allows the massaging of the quarter panels after supposed flaws showed in the handling and aero of those poor ole shivy's.

1998 Ford intro's the Taurus, gm the new sb2 engine, yet shivy whines about Fords early success and gmna$car to the rescue and chops the rear spoiler on the Taurus not once, but twice. gm wins all the titles and most races, gm 18, Ford 15.

1999, even though DJ wins the title, gm outscores Ford in wins, 21 to 13. After DJ wins at Michigan by 6 seconds a gm racing official calls for gmna$car to ban the 88 car. It's been downhill since for RYR!

In 2000, both Ford and shivy get new bodies, Ford sweeps the top 5 at Daytona and the crying begins, toward the end of the year shivy receives a nose kickout, gm again outscores Ford in wins, 20/14.

2001, numerous mid-season nose kickouts for shivy, even the pontiac teams were whining about it, shivy still pervails, dodge arrives back after being gone for 22 years, shivy 21 wins, Ford 11, dodge 4.

2002, pontiac receives under the table aero help from gmna$car, Ford and dodge are outraged about it, tough ####, gm 15, Ford 14, dodge 7.

2003, Everyone now gets the "common template body" based on the Taurus. Works out great for gm, (even though Kenseth wins the title) 19 wins, Ford 9, dodge 7.

2004, the chase gimmick begins, kb wins the title even though he most likely wouldn't have under the old format, gm does well in wins, gm 22, Ford 10, and Dodge 4.

2005, one of the better balances between gm and Ford,but not so good for dodge. The balance would be short lived! After years of assisting gm in body and nose mods, gmna$car refuses to allow dodge to massage the nose, gm 17, Ford 16........dodge 3.

In the fall of 05, for the 2006/07 seasons of non-irocot cars shivy were "given" two unprecedented chances at testing. They've dominated since, just look at the stats it's right there in black and white!

Follow the gm $ that pours into this farce of a series, if you can! What about this penciled-in elusive and mysterious rule book that doesn't exist to the fans, unless one chucks out $350+ for it. What's to hide?

Not to mention the "shivy exclusive gray areas" from rule violations and preferential treatment they received and continue to receive.

Then we have the "golden shivy" boyz who have been hyped to God status and the series now revolves around those shivy boyz and is nothing short of a shivymercial. It should be obvious to those who look at it all with open eyes. So, what's your excuse!?!

 

Forgot to mention, now gmna$car has a new rule from this elusive rule book (LOL) and is limiting the # of teams under one owner. Who does this affect? Why Roush, and only Roush of course!

How about the slanted procedure in which the manufacturer title is calculated! It's not legit as it does not consider the 2/1 shivy #'s advantage. Explain, if you can, how it is any other make is likely to win it?

Just another shivy gimme! Time to quit hitting that snooze alarm and wake up!

 

You bet ya! Gm whined like there was no tomorrow about it seein as they dumped so much $$ into the series to have one Ford team beat em at their own game, which is exactly why gmna$car came to shivy's rescue once again. It's happened so many times it's pathetic!

In today's society, unfortunately, money talks bs walks! Ford and gm both are in financial trouble! Ford is rightfully so trimming the fat in this farce of a series, gm own's gmna$car as they easily spend $3/$1 to Ford's marketing costs so imo it makes good money sense for Ford to not feed the phony bs anymore than necessary.

Later

 

They kept slamming Elliott because they couldn't figure out how he was doing it. I think one of the greatest performances of all time was when Elliott made up 2 laps under green at 'Dega (I think) and won the race. If you remember, that bird had a different sound than any other car on the track.

 

Yep, it was dega and it was two laps. Those were the days! I loved every minute of it especially seein as Ford never, and I mean never, got a handout from gmna$car like shivy/gm has time and again.

The way I see it now is whenever Ford gets a win in this clearly slanted circus labeled stock car racing it's something to really celebrate cause it was most definitely earned, non of this gimme chit.

David Pearson (Gray Fox) and then Davey Allison was who I rooted for back in the day. Since the Biffle's entry into the truck series back in the late 90's I've kinda followed him, but it's never been the same for me since Davey's death I've just followed Ford in general since. Quite a history!

 

[QUOTE=Fordsflylow]
Fixed it for ya!

While impressed at your investigation skills, you make a few good points. BUT, in your rants, you leave one HUGE piece of the puzzle out that totally flaws your plea.

You take out the human factor in racing. If you logic ( or lack of ) had any credibility ( or truth ) to it, why aren't all Chevy teams winning in NASCAR. The Morgan Mclures, HAAS, Hall of Fame, if Chevy has NASCAR in their back pocket how come they aren't winning?

Look at the topic teams in NASCAR. ( there is a Ford team in there also, you just would hate to admit it ) Look at the amount of people and resourses they have. It doesn't matter if the money came from Ford or Chevy or sponsers. It's the management of these big teams and putting the right people in the right positions which makes them dominate. So you don't think Hendrick or Childress would have any sucess if they ran Fords or Dodges? Gibbs did quite alright when they switched from Pontiac to Chevy.

You harp on the parity yet admitt that "those were the days" when a Ford no less, came from 2 laps down on a 2 and half mile track to win the race. I see now where your coming from, if a Ford isn't dominating than something evil must be happening.

 

It is laughable that anyone thinks that Nascar is rigged in chevy's favor. The bottom line is, chevy has more top teams than for does. They have more cars in races, and they have better drivers.

I just read this entire thread, and while I cant address everything, I would like to point a few things out.

1) Any manufacturer can build a new engine anytime they want, just has to be nascar approved. If it is not approved, they can tweak the design as many times as they want to get it approved. Chevy has introduced the new R07 motor this year, but a lot of the teams are still running the old SB2 design, because they havent figured out the new motors yet. You also have to look at another thing, RCR and DEI now build motors together, Joe Gibbs and Hendrick are seperate, but between these 3 organizations, they supply EVERY other chevy operation. Some of them even buy chassis from other teams.

2) Dodge has been given the most leeway by nascar recently. They have been allowed to go back as far as the 2004 noses on their cars to try to be competitive.

3) There is ONE top team that runs ford, Roush (5 cars). There is ONE top team that runs Dodge, Penske (2 cars, soon 3). There are FOUR top teams that run chevy, RCR, DEI, Hendrick, Gibbs (14, soon to be 16 teams). The simple disparity in numbers accounts for the difference in wins.