lilman320 what ur saying here is exactly what i have been trying to say u nailed it on the head. this is what ive been trying to say a week ago when i said that ford should dump the psd or at least go to a navistar inline since they are available

my last post was just mostly to let off some steam not from ya'll. ur not that much of a concern to me. but other things anyways im back civil again ready to keep going

nick i have given u concrete eveidence im sure lilman320 can back me up on most if not all of it. the fact is ya'll need a new brain go to a truck pull, a drag race, look at whats being done to what, its hard to ignore how many dodges are on the road, how many cummins engines are being used to make the big hp numbers, look at resale value, a cummins will resale higher then a ford or chevy, look at the aftermarket it all comes out on a cummins first. hell the aftermarket parts for cummins is like that of the chevy 350 back when gassers where cool. back when there wasn't a part u couldn't find at ur local autoshop for a 350.

in all the cummins name is huge psd and damx are just sitting in the shadows

and i never bashed ford or the psd but the spark that light this whole thing off was when i posted in the forum that asked what should ford fix i said dump the whole psd program and go w/ cat or some other better engine in () i said it was to bad dodge was keeping cummins. all i was saying in that was that ford should go w/ an inline motor because a truck is meant for work and needs a working motor. if ya'll don't belive that then im sure lilman320 can help since i apperently make no sense to ya'll

oh and lilman320 thanks for the support nice to know someone who has more expereince can explain it better then i.

 

Let's just lock this thread...

 

Moved to General Diesel discussion. To those that can't help being argumentative in a negative way please back off. All others welcome.

 

i think u need to look agian buddy dodge/cummins dont hold their value as well as fords. i can find a 2001 24 valve cummins dually man. for $25,000and I can find several psd of the same year for 2-3000 $'s more.

 

I’m glad they haven’t locked this thread out yet, even though the current discussion has nothing to do with the original posting. I can’t believe that people are still trying to compare inline engines to V designed engines. They're two very different engines designed to perform different tasks. The only thing they have in common is they run on diesel. The inline engines tend to have spiky torque curves which make them less ideal for general purpose use such as daily drivers and even around town short haul delivery. The V configuration tends to have a broader operating rpm range and a flatter torque curve, although that often comes with a lower peak output for comparable displacement. This gap though is closing with current advancments in V engine design. They also generally have far less vibration issues. What it comes down to is what you are using it in and for. For light duty trucks “I’m sorry but the F250 and F350 by classification are light duty the whole SD thing is for marketing” the V configuration is better. V8’s have more efficient and consistent power than an inline because of their wider power band. That’s why the V’s get better MPGs than the inline. When you move up to the larger medium and the heavy duty trucks the inline engines are better for several reasons. As listed above they have a higher peak output for comparable displacement. This means smaller engine than a V configuration engine for the same amount of power, but since they operate at this peak power in such a narrow band you have to have good transmission design. That’s why the big trucks have to have 10 speeds and higher in their transmissions. They need that many to be able to keep the engines in their power band. The same reason Dodge chose an inline for their trucks is the same reason big trucks do economics. Inline engines are cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain because they have few moving parts. Dodge did not choose it because it was the best engine for their light duty truck.
Someone else brought up that some of the older big trucks used V engines and that they were crap. That’s not really fair, because they’re more expensive to maintain a lot of them are not properly taken care of. Chances are the truck spoken of was half beaten to death and hadn’t been serviced in awhile and that had more to do with its poor performance than its design.

 

Perhaps.

It might have some correlation to its power output and designated use, however.

It so happens I am Blue Oval certified in Diesel and Electrical, with specialty training in Ford Networking and Multiplexing along with 6.0 Diagnosis and Performance, so please refrain from being high and mighty.

 

hey little man wrong about cat not making any light - medium disels as v8's. one of their best is the 3112 makes about 225hp and looks alot like a power stroke.

 

I don’t believe anybody said Caterpillar didn’t make V8s. They make plenty of them you see them all the time in marine and power generation applications. I personally have never seen them used in a light duty truck though. If you can tell me of a "light duty truck" that uses a V8 Cat I’d love to see it. I don’t think you’ll ever find a V8 Cat in a light duty truck light like the F250 or F350. The Caterpillar name is too expensive and I do mean just the name.

 

on page 10 post #147 lilman320 said that cat and some other companies didnt make a V8 for light to medium duty. which they do. i also belive that navistar made some. cat make very good V8 diesels like the 3112.

 

I see what you mean. That's what's so great about this site, you can just state your opinion without any facts to back it up. Lilman was supporting mhannink in the use of an I6 in a light duty truck. All you have to do is look at Dodge and see the folly in that. The I6 diesel is just not the right engine for a light duty truck. Most of Dodge's problems with the Cummins is that's it's not matched to the truck. The truck is poorly designed and cheaply built. If anybody out there has a Dodge how many transmissions have you gone through how about front tires? If you want an I6 diesel thats great get a truck thats built for it. The F650 has a 5.9L Cummins and a 7.2 Cat as options and would be a wonderful choice. But as far as Fords light-duty trucks I hope they're always a PSD by Navistar under the hood. My pockets just are not deep enough for V8 Cat.

 

i have had 2 dodge's while i did have trouble with other parts of the truck i did not have to replace the tranny in either truck. tires did wear bad though. on the other hand my father has a 24v dodge and has not had any trouble with anything at all in 140k. not even tires or the auto tranny.

 

Ummmmm.... so is the Cat going into the 07???

 

no cat has already told ford that they are not interrested in the private market.

 

I'm just going to ramble here a bit First of all I'm a FORD guy!! But I realize there are other products out there that deserve respect.

I think both engine configurations have there place. Is anyone familiar with the old IH tractors with V8's??? If its below freezing you better have the second can of ether! On the other hand a John Deere 4230 with an I6 isn't a whole lot better! My point? Either type of engine can be built good or bad. As far as the Cummins, I think Dodge did a great job of making a low rpm/narrow powerband engine very drivable. (Now if they could just make a truck that holds up!) I have driven a ford truck with a cummins engine in it. It could pull mountains but never faster than 65 mph, and the fuel mileage is nothing to brag about.

Personally I think were going to see more and more push towards peak usable power being produced at high rpms. Its happening much too fast in the farm tractors. In an earlier post it was mentioned that running an engine faster wears it out sooner. I agree with that. However, a faster running engine is easier on the rest of the drivetrain. For any given horsepower figure, as the engine speed is lowered the torque figure goes up. High torque at low speeds is hard on bearings. It creates too much pressure against the oil film that separates metal surfaces with not enough speed to replenish the oil. Also the components need to be beefier to handle the higher torque.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this!



By the way, My ideal truck??????????
Ill have it as soon as I can match an IVT to my PSD!!!!

 

Ford offering Cat/Cummins engines in the BIG trucks is purely for operators who already have trained mechs and parts suppliers for the rest of their trucks with these engines.