Have you been watching the newsreels? There's thousands of people down there that haven't received squat from anyone. I'm quite certain I could find a spot where I could unload the goods for the prices I indicated.

There is a difference between legality and morality. What is legal and what is right often don't go hand-in-hand.

And FWIW, I'd bet that each of the involved states has civil and/or criminal laws which prohibit price-gouging in the manner that I have described. It's really no different than a state making it illegal to charge people "usurious" interest rates.

 

No. They don't put up signs. We've been putting up with gas shortages around here since the first hurricaine last year. Long lines for the gas that's left have become common. Not taking the boat out (no gas available), and listening to the radio stations to find where the tankers have just pulled into. I never thought these things would happen again in my lifetime. My company pays for my gas, so price isn't even an issue. I just have a tough time even finding a station open, where I can pull right up and pump, like the good old days.

 

That may be true.

I totally agree. But business are only required to operate within legal bounds. And there's a limit to how much we can legislate morality. Personally, I don't want my legislators defining morality. It's up to us as consumers to define the moral bounds and vote with our dollars. If I think that a business is not being moral - taking advantage of a panic for profit, I'll vote by not shopping there again, ever.

Maybe, but you ever try to buy a beer (or soda) and a dog at a major league event? For a family of 4? Your kind of a captive consumer while in the arena/stadium. You can't bring in your own food and there is no competition. Your only choice is to spend the money or go hungry.

My point is while I may not agree with their pricing policies, I don't want laws limiting or dictating prices. If I don't agree with how a particular business is being run, I'll go elsewhere, or organize a boycott.

 

I can't really argue in a general sense with anything that you've said 76supercab2, it all sounds pretty reasonable. If we were talking about anything less than basic necessities (as food, water and oil are), I could go along with it fully. But I don't think someone whose baby is dying of dehydration and starvation is really in a position to bargain hunt, or to otherwise make mental notes not to buy from a certain vendor in the future.

There are very good reasons why basic commodities, such as electricity for example, are as highly regulated as they are, primary among them is to make sure that selfish and greedy corporations don't take too much advantage of the inherent leverage that they have and use it to hold the average working-stiff consumer (like you and me, presumably) financially hostage.

 

Just read this morning in the Toronto Star news paper (9-9-05) that by 2007 the price per barrel will touch or exceed $100 U.S.. That translates into in and around $1.50 per liter or $5.68 a gallon. The artical said to be ready to change driving habits and your car/truck buying needs.

 

But we're not talking about hurricane victims, we're talking about people around the country hitting the gas pumps furiously during a crisis. Big difference, IMHO.

A note about electricity... electricity is regulated because power companies are given a monopoly by the municipality, not because of morality. This was originally done with utlitities in order in insure what is known as universal service. In other words, the guy 10 miles out of town pays the same rate as the guy in town. In exchange for a guaranteed rate, the utility has to provide everyone power at the same price regardless of the actual delivery costs. I know a bit about this field, did some contract work for a Southern Company/Enron deregulation project years ago. If you want to bring morality into it, is it really moral to charge people a higher rate to subsidize bringing power, cable, gas and phone service to someone out in the boonies? Shouldn't the person in the boonies shoulder their costs without reaching into my pocket?

See thats the problem with bring morality into this... just was is moral and what isn't? Who's definition do you use?

 

Has anyone ever seen what the cost of gasoline is around the world? It would be interesting to see how we compare. I would imagine it ranges between almost nothing to the high prices paid in England and Canada.

If previous posts are correct about how the capitalist system works, you all have demanded higher wages to cover the additional cost of gasoline, have you not? If not what are you waiting for? Your employer must simply understand that your costs have gone up and therefore the cost of your labor has also risen.

My guess is that when raise time comes they will tell you that they are feeling the crunch of fuel prices and raises will be minimal this year. How can it work both ways? Because we do not have the nuts to quit when we do not get what we want/need, collectively I mean.

I think that I will not work for a fixed amount at my nexy job. My salary will be a computation based on the consumer price index and the cost of crude oil adjusted biweekly. That way the playing field will be level. My rate of pay will the be based on my costs, I will no longer care what basic commodities cost. What do you think?

 

Undoubtedly my own, Ken.

I too was once a strong proponent of pure, capitalistic, dog-eat-dog economics. I feel I have a pretty good sense of what it's like to be chasing the almighty dollar while conveniently ignoring the social and moral implications of what I am doing. In fact, I would even venture a guess that my own business interests might currently be a bit more profitable if I handled things accordingly (i.e., with social and moral blinders on). As an example, it would be quite easy for me right now to press a few buttons and print out some form letters jacking up the rent on 10 or so small families that live in my apartment building, using "Hurricane Katrina" as an excuse. Certainly my heating costs for the apartment units that these people live in are going to be affected by the storm damage (I provide both heat and hot water with the units), so I really have all the excuse I need right now to start the gouging process myself, wouldn't you agree?

But I won't be doing that. Instead, I am going to wait and see what my actual costs are (as opposed to engaging in wild speculation and profiteering), and only then will I reluctantly pass those costs along to my tenants in the fairest manner that I can. Yes, I admit that by doing so I will be seeking to maintain the profit margin that I currently enjoy. I am in business, after all, to make money. But something I won't be doing is taking advantage of a national tragedy and stuffing my pockets with unexpected profits by charging unconscionable prices to people in need of a basic necessity (shelter).

 

Rockledge,

Kudos to you for running your business that way. Seriously.

But what you state sort of underscores some of my points. You have made a choice on you own based on several factors. Profit vs ability to sleep at night with a clear conscience. Also, another factor may be you have good tennants that you would rather keep than chance getting some scumbag willing to pay higher rent but trashes the place, costing you the extra profit.

The point is YOU got to make that decision and no one else legislated or forced it on you. No one else is telling YOU what to charge in YOUR business for the rents on YOUR property. And know what? A moral decision was made anyway. Great, the system worked.

 

Is that like, situational ethics?

 

I agree. That's how I handle my life and business. But that's my choice. I believe in karma, reaping what you sow, etc... treat people fairly and you get rewarded. Just as with rent... make a good profit but treat people fairly and they stick around. Empty units are costly. The guy charging $6/gallon for fuel... let him do it. People will remember and will avoid him in the future. He'll get what he deserves, one way or another.

There's a Shell station across the street from the shop. I never bought fuel from them. When everyone else was at $3.29, $3.79, etc. this guy was at $2.89/$2.99. Now that prices have fallen and leveled off he's the same prices as everyone else... I'm buying from him.

 

Yes, there is some truth to that what you and Ken say, I will admit that. Good tenants are hard to come by, and when you get them, you don't want to lose them. A good tenant is really no different than a good customer in that regard...

 

I agree Ken, and I would make sure I told everyone who'd listen how the owner of that station behaved during the last week.

 

Stupidity did it.

(there's a nutshell for ya!)

They sold it, we bought it. The deal is done....

And we are still allowing it.

They own that stuff. We buy it from them -QED

If they wanted a million bucks for it - we could not afford it.
So the "Carrot" is held only so far from the jackasses nose....

You don't need to look very far to see who the characters in this play are.

We want it - they have got it. What should we do?

The answer has been there all along!

But the next question is "Have they outflanked us?"

I bet they already "OWN" alternative fuels in some way....

 

it is too bad this country is based on how much money we can make instead of how much we can help each other out. Yep there is the moral issue at work again. I have one tenant (i rent out one house) and he has already asked me if I was going to raise the rent due to the fact that it is going to cost more for home heating this year. Well the fact is that home heating has increased big time over the last 2yrs. I have never raised his rent due to the fact in the last 4yrs which he has rented from me, he and his wife has not missed one payment, matter of fact they pay early some months. So i swallow the loss to keep a great renter. It like Rock said above, good renters are hard to come by. Sure my profit margin goes down a bit during the winter months but i expect that anyway. But if i was greedy and wanted to keep my profit margin the same, i could have increased his rent 2 yrs ago. This is why i think America is going down the toilet with no plunger. There is no reason to justify a almost dollar increase in gas prices in less that two weeks. It plain to see they are testing the market for all it can bear, just because of a Natural disaster. and it makes me want to move to Canada,at least ill have a sure health care plan just in case i have a heart attack over the high gas prices there