Sinister, I gotta tell you I was thinking of going out to get a coke and chips then comig back to finish the rest of that later. Very well Said..
My only question is that you seem to consider the Duramax as a Highrever, yet it makes its 590 ft lbs at 1900 rpms. I have not, however seen a Graph showing the torque Curve for this motor, so im unaware as to how it falls off as the Rpms Climb.. .

Again, Good Valid Points.

Ron

 

I will throw in my $.02 here. I have owned both the Dodge and the Ford. Leaving engines/drivetrains out of this (I think enough has been said on this and you should make your own choice) my opinion is the Dodge has far less quality in material and workmanship than the Ford. The metal is thinner (it seems), the plastic warps more (it seems), and the metal rusts faster (it seems). Now this is just me comparing the two, not some hot shot magazine so take it for what it is worth. Generally I just felt like I was driving a cheaply made truck (ducking and running) when driving the Dodge. It was a wonderful truck and served me well, god rest it's sole.

 

The cummins ia great motor has a great reputation. Everybody I think agrees on that one. One guy stated it best wed have the doge cummins in the ford superduty with an allison transmission. Wed have one heck of a truck. It sure satisfy most people.I believe.

 

no thanks I'll take my superduty just the way she came.

 

Sorry, I don't want no Cummins in my truck either...........

 

I did infact get the EGR uplugged and it did seems to make a small bit of difference in the Turbo lag, and a bigger difference in the mid to high range power band when I run flat out. It smokes a little more but no where near as much as all the Dodges around town do!

 

I purchased an 03 powerstroke crew cab long bed back in August.
I though about the chevy and the dodge but eventually went with the Ford 6.0. I have owned both a Chevy and a Dodge in the past. While they were both gas engines my mind was made up because of everything around the engine. My Dodge had a 5.9 magnum and was a very good engine mechanically but everything else on the truck fell apart, including tranny and front end as the two things that dodge just couldn't fix.
My chevy was a good old 350 that just wouldn't stop running. Although it was not as powerful as the dodge it was strong as an ox and very reliable. The only reason I sold it was to have a down payment on the ford. The chevy is a very durable truck and the new duramax is also as my hunting partner baught one two months before I baught my Ford.
In conclusion I think that the cummins is a great engine the only problem is that it is in a Dodge that has a bad front end and suspension set up and bad auto tranny. The 6 spd is much better but tend to go through clutches quickly. The Chevys are very reliable but just not as rugged as the Ford or Dodge when it comes to off road work. Although I have had some bugs with my 6.0, which I expected, It is running great right now after the flash was installed.
All three diesel engines are very good and have plenty of power for my needs, what made my mind up was the rugged leaf spring suspension and front end, and the uncontested room of the crew cab. The Chevy's are just too soft and the Dodge is just too unreliable, minus the good old cummins of course

 

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I like the Duramax. I have never owned one, but it looks good on paper. I have never once heard a complaint from many people I've met who do actually own them and work them hard. I see many of these guys day after day, and their trucks are always hooked up to something or other. I have taken one on a test drive, and I was'int overly impressed with the low end it had. In fairness though, it was equiped with an Allison auto, and this extremely HD transmission is known for absorbing a good chunk of all that low end power(at least from what I've heard), so this may be why. Also I am used to driving diesels with manual transmissions, so that may be part of it as well. The 6.0/ZF 6 speed that I test drove, had nothing to give below 1800 RPM.

The Duramax has a good RPM range - it's much wider than the Cummins. The Duramax is the engine that started all this high RPM diesel performance. It does not fall off as the Cummins does at high RPM, but my point was that this difference does not make the Cummins less suitable as a high speed highway motor, taller gearing in the differential, as well as proper gearing in the transmission will take care of all of this. Proper gearing allows a low RPM high torque motor like the Cummins to have comparable high speed towing ability, while also retaining the advantage of having more low end torque. With this kind of gearing, it will not have the empty or lightly loaded acceleration that a higher winding engine will have - especially when the truck that this other engine is in also has a numerically higher differential ratio to take advantage of the engine's higher RPM characteristics. It's all a matter of knowing what product you like, and gearing it appropriately to take advantage of it's attributes.

None of these engines are high revvers when compared to gasoline engines, and the Duramax does make alot of low end torque, what I mean to say is that the Cummins does make more at lower RPM than the others do, and it falls off more quickly at high RPM as well - but this does not penalize it for high speed highway use in the least- it's just a matter of proper gearing to the engines torque curve.

The Duramax was DESIGNED to have better high RPM performance as well as having good low end torque. The PSD (aka VT365) was not. It is currently the highest revving of the three, but was designed to run at low RPM like the Cummins. Ford was not after the Duramax's towing ability when they re- programmed this engine, (they could have had as much or more with a straight VT365) - they wanted the acceleration that the Duramax has and turned the RPM up. To make matters worse, they programmed the turbo in a way in which gives the manual transmission version no low end. I cannot say about the torqueshift.

So now we have both Ford and GM, with two fast acceleration diesel engines, both of which make peak torque at higher RPM than diesel engines traditionally do, both of which will out pace a Cummins with a light load because of this, and somehow because the Cummins motor possesses a more traditional diesel torque curve and RPM range, I'm being asked to believe that it is not as suitable for high speed towing applications.

 

Have you actrually seen the torque curve on the 6.0 PSD? It does have a ton of low end torque and MAINTAINS this torque through the torque curve. Your analysis of the torque is off. Also, you can't compare the VT365 to the PSD because they are governed and programmed completely different.

As for the Cummins, yes, if geared properly it will do a great job. Unfortunately the current transmission does not adequately "fill the gap" left when the torque curve starts to drop. Even with the current 600 lb/ft of torque the Cummins would still come in last in a towing comparison between the 3. The 555 HP model finished behind the Duramax in several comparisons before the Duramax was available with 590 lb/ft.

 

Wasn't the whole purpose of the Variable Pitch Turbo to increase torque and reduce turbo lag in low rpm's? It utilizes the turbo in low rpms to make more low end. Makes perfect sense to me, and I don't see why theres big hype over the engine having no low end. It makes it peak torque at 2000rpm. But in the rpm's below that it still makes a ton of torque. Sure its peak is higher then the competition's, but it sure don't mean its got NO low end. And like Johnsdiesel said, its torque curve is flat, and thats what matters when towing.

 

Have they worked out the 6.0 problems yet?

 

Yes, most, if not all of the problems are gone.

I seem to stand behind the Power Stroke more, because I have seen what they can do. I have never seen a dead Power Stroke, and there's not that many Duramax's around to know, but the few Dodge Cummins around here are ok, I only know of one that has been completely trouble free. One of the fellows at church asked me to fix his Cummins since it won't crank, but I know very little about computerized diesels, so I told him to take it to a diesel mechanic. There is a reason for component size in these engines. The reason the Cummins has bigger rods than the PSD is because it has more mass to support with the longer crank. Think about it this way, there would be no way they could economically make the 6.0L PSD with equivalent size rods, if they did, it would weigh more than the truck without the engine.

 

Yes, they have worked out the PSD problems. They had them worked out after the first 1,000 or so made last year.
Also, I want a SuperDuty, I may trade for one tomorrow if I can get the financing, but I wouldn't even consider one if it had a Cummins.

 

Well said,I hate it when everyone says that everyone would rather have a cummins in their superduty.

 

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You mean to say, that besides the 500 or so Ford was forced to buy back, there were only 500 more with any problems?

Seems there must have been at least that many distraught owners on this site alone, I guess I'll have to search the archives in my spare time and actually count them, I doubt the only people with any problems have only been the ones visiting this site, but oh well - I'll get back with you.