Diesels aren't for everybody. There's a huge market for gassers or battery electrics to server those people.

 

It's simple. Ram (stellantis) is doing THE RIGHT THING. Ford refuses to. Ford still works under the "well if it blows up, its the owner/operator's fault. You put water contaminated fuel in the tank. Shame on you" way of thinking. That's how they started down the path of blaming folks for overloading the Dana axles in these newer trucks. I think it wasn't until a test engineer on a track managed to nuke one that they realized the problem was on them.

I suspect (but can't verify) the failure rate was such that enough folks we're filing complaints with NHTSA and the government started knocking on Stellantis' door. Rather than deny the problem, Stellantis is stepping up and doing the right thing.

Ford has a very long track record of placing blame on the owner when things go wrong. I had an Explorer once that Ford denied a warranty claim on the hood latch rusting out. Couldn't be that the plain steel bolts punched through raw aluminum caused the failure. Nope. it was my fault. They never explained why it was my fault, just that they wouldn't cover it. That was with less than 15k miles on the car.

I really like Ford products. I think Ford as a company is on the same wavelength as many other companies, like Thor RV's. Cut product costs by building things cheaper. Cut warranty costs by placing blame when things break on the owner. Pay big shareholder dividends. Everyone is happy.

 

To add on to this - Ram does have a lift pump. They've had them for a long time. My 2018 had one, there is a procedure to refill the fuel filter when you change it out using the pushbutton start (much like the newer higher trim Fords)

There was lots of talk on the Ram forums about fuel system noises and such on the CP4 trucks when they first came out. Ram updated calibrations and had Bosch put different cams in the pumps to quiet them down. They marked the 'updated' pumps by stamping dimples into the pump case.

At the end of the day the CP4 is just a bad design. Period. Ford sticks with it because of how it's packaged on the engine. The 'V' design of the pump fits where Ford wants it to fit. Ford does not want to re-engineer the location of the pump. It's less about the cost delta by going with a different Bosch or Denso pump strictly based on hardware costs - it's the engineering time Ford would need to put into designing a new placement for the pump that keeps Ford stuck to this bad design. Although I do believe honestly that the CP4 is probably by far the cheapest way to make high pressure common rail fuel systems work.

 

The CP4.2 pump develops several thousand more psi of fuel pressure than the CP3. The higher fuel pressure results in better atomization of fuel, permitting better utilization of fuel (power derived from each fuel molecule), resulting in higher power ratings.

FCA, at the time of making the decision to pull out all the stops to break the 1,000 ft lb tq barrier in 2019, on the 30th anniversary of the Cummins - Ram relationship, went for the higher fuel pressure.

The CP4.2 didn't work out. Just like it didn't work out for GM, who ditched it for a Denso, and just like it hasn't worked out for a lot of unfortunate Ford owners, where Ford rigorously finds ways to deny warranty claims.

Simultaneously during all of this, sadly, the executive leadership of FCA, as well as of the Ram division, suddenly changed, by both death and litigation. This loss of assertive executive leadership within FCA really depleted some of the wind that was pushing the Ram brand's growth in market share capture during the late 'teens of this century.

Still, FCA reversed course and discontinued the use of the CP4.2 for the 2021 model year. FCA did NOT go back to the CP3. The new fuel pump is called the CP-ISB21.

Despite dropping the CP4.2, FCA did not step up to the plate for 2019-2020 Ram owners who were LIVID that their still relatively new trucks, not even half paid for yet in many cases, were ticking time bombs of 5 figure repairs with the CP4.2 pumps, even while if they had just waited one model year, or just one week later in a few cases, they could have had a 2021 model instead, with the CP-ISB21 pump in lieu of the CP4.2 pump.

Puegot acquired FCA, and the resulting amalgam of companies came to be called Stellantis.

In a short period of time, Stellantis, which brought changes in leadership, has made extraordinary strides in improving systems behind the scenes at Ram brands. Evidence of this can be seen in details like the upfitter's body building information, the presentation of specifications, etc.

And now Stellantis has stepped to the plate to recall and replace the CP4.2 pumps for every Ram that has one.

That action will bring much good will to the brand, as well as elevate consumer confidence in the brand.

Ford owners who have been stricken by CP4.2 pump failures that have not been covered by warranty, and that can not be irrefutably attributed to a fueling error (such as DPF mix ups), might consider presenting their experiences to NHTSA in light of this recent recall on the same component.

Kudos to Stellantis.

 

As usual, Y2KW57 dropping facts.

 

Bravo Stellantis!!!!!

 

So is RAM replacing the CP4.2 pumps on the recalled vehicles, with the CP-ISB21? My first thought when reading this thread was, maybe a bad batch of CP4 pumps, but that doesn't sound like the case.
If they are replacing them with the newer pump, it must be an easy eough retrofit. Maybe Ford can source something similar.

Being that the CP4.2 contributed to higher engine power output numbers over the CP3 pumps, the CP-ISB21 must be on par with with fuel pressure output of the CP4.2?

 

Every time I’ve changed a fuel filter there is crap that looks like rust in the bottom of the housing. No doubt from the fill tanks and diesel processing and distribution. Never had water. But I bet as soon as they see the trash at the bottom of every filter housing they deny pump failures.

 

Which fuel pump comes on the new 7.3’s?

 

its not a diesel, nor is it direct injected...so no HPFP on the 7.3.

So likely a cheap no name in tank pump that will run 180-200k miles with no problems...

 

Weird, I had problems with a 2006 GMC 2500 fuel pump on the Duramax.
Makes me wonder if Japanese diesels are this garbage.

 

It’s not like Ram is doing something totally stand up here. There was already an investigation initiated by the NHTSA. They likely saw the writing on the wall and took the initiative in hopes of saving face in a very competitive segment. The main difference I see between the Ford and Ram in this application is the filtration. Just based on surface area alone, there is significantly more with Ford especially the primary filter/water separator. While there have been some failures posted here, considering the amount of units on the road and miles traveled, they aren’t exactly dropping like flies. Just using common sense with fueling and maintenance can go a long way. With great power comes greater responsibility.😁👍

 

I will be curious to see if Ford continues with it through the next revamp.

Between multiple lawsuits across several brands,. NHTSA investigation, Ram doing a recall upgrade on CP4 trucks, and it's known failings I just can't see Fords continued use.

 

 

I have put a lot of miles on many superdutys and have not had any fuel system issues or even been aware of them other than the rare horror stories you see online. And I only replace fuel filters every 27k.

but I’m curious since people in this thread are talking like it’s widespread.