2017+ Super Duty The 2017+ Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty Pickup and Chassis Cab

Heavy Service front springs. Yay or Nay?

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  #31  
Old 12-29-2018, 10:18 PM
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Ah ok so as low as 2000. Eek.

I’m also considering doing the 9900 GVWR.
 
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe T
Ah ok so as low as 2000. Eek.

I’m also considering doing the 9900 GVWR.
Browse through this thread for examples
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...r-sticker.html
 
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe T
Ah ok so as low as 2000. Eek.

I’m also considering doing the 9900 GVWR.

Why the 9900? If you don’t select an optional GVWR a F250 will come with 10,000 GVWR. A F350 comes with a 11,500 GVWR unless you select one of the optional deratings.

Optional deratings are only on paper. The trucks are the built exactly the same except for the payload Sticker.
 
  #34  
Old 12-29-2018, 11:13 PM
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Is it 10,000 or 10,001 that requires a log book if a commercial vehicle?
 
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:15 PM
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Never mind it’s 10,001 so F250 will be ok.
 
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:53 AM
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You’re down to about 2000 payload and with a 16k gooseneck, that eats up roughly 1600 of it. You+passengers+anything else can’t go over 400. The truck will do it, but it won’t be legal. That’s why everyone is recommending the 350.
 
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:04 AM
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Let me ask the question differently.

I can put farm tags on it and there is no restriction as long as you don’t surpass the tire ratings.


Will the Platinum F250 be ok?
 
  #38  
Old 12-30-2018, 08:41 AM
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Based on your original post where you essentially want higher rear capacity and this last post where you don't have any restrictions, it is hands down a F350 with the standard 11,500 or 10,000 (really doesn't matter when see in a minute), no camper package and no tow package. I would also spec 18" wheel.
Here is the thoughts and what I have learned from others here and elsewhere and confirmed when ordering mine -
The frame, drivetrain and entire front end is exactly the same between a F250 and F350.
A F250 without high capacity is Sterling (which as you stated is plenty stought), the least amount of springs in the rear and the lowest rate springs in the front among the 4WD / diesel combo to minimize the variables.
A F250 with high capacity changes the rear axle to the Dana and you get more leafs in the rear plus it changes certification label and tire pressures.
A F350 is basically a high capacity F250 with overload (or second stage) springs in the rear. The other differences are in the way options are played out/grouped and priced (such as trailer brake controller which is standard on a F350 but option on F250 for example), etc. I priced it like eight different ways and can show you on paper that a high capacity F250 is about $400 less than the exact same equipped F350, so for me it was a no brainer. What you pick up is the largest payload permissible with the options and trim you want, plus arguably higher resale based on the perception of a F350 verse F250.

When I ordered mine, I wanted the most tow capacity while still retaining a nice ride. I never will plow with it nor will I put a winch/bumper etc. And as previously stated by others, if I did (or in your case you decide you need more front spring capacity), a front spring swap is easy and cheap.
I did not add anything to the front so I have the lowest rate front springs - I spec'd the F350 with 11,500 standard GVWR which gives me the most rear leafs, no sway bar and the tire pressure spec'd to 65 psi front and 80 rear. If I had selected 10,000 GVWR, the two changes would be the door sticker and specified rear tire pressure which I think they lower to 65 psi. There may be a slight rear leaf change,m that I do not know for sure and I am sure someone else can confirm. I just knew I wanted the second stage overload springs for when I do tow.
18" wheels I spec'd as there are more choices, better ride and higher capacity. My truck rides almost as nice as the 2015 F150 it replaced. I cannot imagine how you could ever bottom out the front and if you did, you hit or dropped something that will be a bigger worry than the springs bottoming out. I have had over 1,000 pounds tongue weight so far and I have yet to hit the overload springs.
Knowing I would be mandated to run 80 psi in the rear which in itself causes a harsh ride and terrible tire wear, I used Forscan to change the values and know I adjust rear pressure based on load. Unloaded, I run 55 psi. That alone makes a huge difference.
Just my thoughts and personal experience.
 
  #39  
Old 12-30-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe T
Let me ask the question differently.

I can put farm tags on it and there is no restriction as long as you don’t surpass the tire ratings.


Will the Platinum F250 be ok?
What state do you live in, because this is not the law anywhere I know. But assuming you are correct, why are you asking us? Just look at the tires and I guess you’ll know all you need to know.
 
  #40  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:05 AM
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I was asking a legal question as I could tag a vehicle farm plate and many restrictions go away such as not having to stop at weigh stations, you can change your GVWR too.

Under 10,000 is similar with weigh stations.

I certainly wouldn’t ask that question on my F150.

Someone mentioned 18 inch rims above. I have an F250 with 18 inch rims and 4200 payload and 2016 F150s with 17 inch rims and 2000 payloads. This next truck will replace a loaded out F150 with 1650 payload that was a glorified (but nice) SUV, it will also fill in some for the F250 as that will be going into short trip and trash haul status at work.


Anyway, I’m going to order it with the 5600 springs and hope these beat up houston roads don’t beat me up. Throw some 285 Michelin Defenders and better shocks on it. If I don’t like I can find some 5200 springs if so.... At least that’s my plan for today, we’ll see what actually happens when the truck arrives.
 
  #41  
Old 12-30-2018, 09:32 PM
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It won’t beat you up. I’m running 6000 lb GAWR and the 350 rear spring set. Doesn’t ride bad at all IMO
 
  #42  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:28 PM
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The High Capacity Trailer Tow Package exists for folks that are looking to avoid higher registration, higher insurance, DOT requirements or some other form of regulatory oppression. Mine is a company truck (partially paid for by my employer) and the company policy prohibits me from purchasing a Class 3 (1 ton) vehicle as it kicks in multiple DOT requirements including periodic mechanical inspections, and medical surveillance for me as the driver. The HCTTP effectively gives you a F350 with F250 badges. It costs right around the same ($1130) as the standard upgrade to an F350 and adds the Dana rear axle, overloads, 3" receiver and max front springs. It does not give you the rear sway bar that comes with the camper package but that can easily be added later if you want. Of course, all of that mechanical capability comes at the expense of the stated capacity. The payload sticker on my fully loaded Platinum (I even checked the box for the air bags in the rear seat-belts!) states a payload capacity of 1,643 pounds. This truck does not tow a load any differently than an identically equipped SRW F350 with a 3,143 pound payload sticker. I would prefer to have a sticker that matches the actually capability of my truck but it was not to be. If I were purchased the truck without the company's restrictions, I definitely would have gone F350 because it gives you both the capability, which I have with my truck, and the stated capacity which I lack. I am very satisfied with the ride with the max front springs. I am also a fan of all the all the bells and whistles and would not trade any of them to add a few pounds to my payload sticker.
 
  #43  
Old 12-31-2018, 06:40 AM
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It costs right around the same ($1130) as the standard upgrade to an F350 and adds the Dana rear axle, overloads, 3" receiver and max front springs.
If I may respectively .......I believe the HCTTP still only comes with 2.5" receiver as did my F350. You get the 3" with a dually F350. Either way, you won't get sleeves with your truck as has been discussed unless the dealer wants to give them to you - this is per Ford latest TSB. So I would plan to buy a new draw bar if you are tagging otherwise even with sleeves, your old 2" draw bar is not matched with the capacity of the truck and receiver.

It also does not change the front springs so you have the lowest rate based on your drive/engine selection before any other options that do effect front springs such as camper, plow, heavy service front. It does change the GCWR (not GVWR) from 23,500 to 25,700 and does that with the upgraded Dana M275 axle and additional leafs. Basically, you get a F350 rear end setup in your F250 but I am fairly certain you still are short one leaf or the overload spring when comparing to a F350 with 11,500K GVWR.
You make great points with commercial/business, but if you are not restricted by that then something to consider OP - its worth a call to your DMV. For me, I am not commercial and therefore not subject to any inspections. Next I called DMV and there is a jump from a F250 to F350 with 10K, and then another jump to get the 11,5K. The total difference was under $100, even less, so for me that was not a factor. I wanted the 11.5K so I had the payload. Commercial or not, if you are towing out of class for the truck based on its registered GVWR and you are in an accident, you are subject to that becoming a factor as you are "overweight" for that vehicle. This isn't just a commercial DOT thing - if a guy fills his S10 pickup truck bed with stone so he is so overloaded, he slams into the back of a car because he can't stop or he loses control due to the weight/tire failure, etc, he's overweight and that was a contributing factor and as such, will become an issue - extreme example but illustrates my point, especially from a civil lawsuit standpoint. Know what payload you will carry, throw in reserve and spec your truck to match your payload. Trailer towing capacity probably is not as much of a concern, it sounds like either truck can "pull" what you need, but can it "carry" it?
In NY for example, I can tow all day long with my 11.5K F350 and I do not need DOT numbers and I am not subject to commercial DOT inspections. As soon as I use it for business (often signified by a name on the side of the truck) and I have a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more, I need DOT numbers and then of course I am subject to inspections. If you are hauling equipment around and get stopped and try to say I am not in business and there are no names on the side of the truck, the onus is on you and good luck with that.
Just thoughts
 
  #44  
Old 12-31-2018, 08:20 AM
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Yeah the issue to me I take more serious is the 10,001 as that is commercial and can get funky depending on where you are and what legislature is doing.

Whats the GAWR on the rear axle on the upgraded Dana?

I know on my 10.5 sterling I have pulled a 20k gooseneck around town in a pinch and didn’t butt pucker much except trying to get on the freeway with a 6.2/3.73 combo :lol: (watch out grandpa needs get merge I10 west near downtown).

For reference my 2015 max tow F150 would give me moderate butt pucker at 10k conventional. Well under it’s rated capacity, very little leeway with a 3400lb equipment trailer and 6000lb Landcruiser I use to tote around with it.
 
  #45  
Old 12-31-2018, 01:38 PM
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The HCTTP definitely comes with the 3" receiver. My special order truck was delivered on 11/2 and at that time still came with a 3" to 2 1/2" reducer. I believe that Ford has since discontinued including the reducer.

The rear has the overloads but one less leaf in the main pack.

For a CC, LB, 4X4, 6.7 with the HCTTP the GAWR for the front is 5600 LB and the rear is 6340 LB. The snow plow option would take the front to 5990 LB. For a SRW F350 (11500 GVWR) the front ratings are the same but the rear is 7230 LB. So, Ford obviously de-rates the Dana axle in the F250 application.

I doubt you would notice much of a difference towing with a SRW F350 versus a F250. Mechanically, the trucks simply aren't that much different. The GVWR has little to do with how a truck is equipped. Assigning a particular GVWR is a way to fit vehicles into specific classifications. Now, I suspect that going to a DRW F350 would make towing and hauling a completely different experience.

Even in a court of law, I expect that the actual mechanical capability and rating of the components of a truck would far overshadow the contrived number on a payload sticker. If it works for you, absolutely get the F350. All things being equal, there is no reason not to. But, if for some reason the F250 is the option you decide makes the most sense, invest in the HCTTP and you will still get most of the capability of an F350.
 


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